Caldari & Minmatar ships and reccomendations in PvP

SO after talking with some folks I have some advice that may help some folks.  Granted these are my thoughts if you have a different view then please post your thoughts.

Caldari vs Minmatar are sort of distant cousins, Caldari in fleets of ships are incredibly powerful, however in small gangs their weaknesses are glaring.  The Minmatar with their speed and alpha strikes can be highly effective,  great for guerrilla tactics, tougher to survive long engagements.

Caldari

Caldari ships have excellent electronics, not only does that allow them to lock faster but to be jammed a little less easily than say the minmatar.

~the glaring weakness of these ships is twofold:

  1. Shield tanks take more energy to sustain than armor tank and when your shields fall so too very quickly does the ship itself
  2. Missiles take time to hit the target…time is precious and that delay is very costly meaning most caladri ships do not live long enough to see multiple salvos hit the target

Caldari ships to avoid using for PvP:

  • Frigates
    • Bantam ~ good for mining NOT for PvP
    • Condor
    • Griffin
    • Heron
    • Merlin ~ split damage FTL 2 missile 2 turret Edted
    • Navy Hookbill not all that impressive I must have been dreaming when I initially put it on the blue side
    • Hawk ~ good resists but limited effectiveness due to missilies
  • Cruiser
    • Osprey
    • Cerberus ~ excellent resists but unless your excellent with missile skills the time for missiles to hit target is huge weakness
    • Basilisk ~ this is a huge flying target in space
  • Destroyer
    • Cormorant ~ paper thin watch out for the asteroids
  • Battleships
    • Raven ~ Missiles (especially cruise missiles) suck for small fast ships and take too much time for the larger ones
    • Scorpion ~ Effective as a jammer in fleets BUT not good for small gang usage
  • Battlecruisers

    • Drake ~ passive tank is effective as a bait ship but dedication to missilies mean tacklers can jusr outrun the missile.

Caldari ships that might be good in PvP

  • Frigates
    • Kestrel
    • Harpy ~ good frigate sniper  with high SP
    • Buzzard ~ specialized as a spy
    • Manticore ~ new life with Torpedoes
    • Kitsune ~ Great frigate jammer
    • Crow ~ Phenonmenal Interceptor
    • Raptor~ Equally good interceptor weak on firepower make sup for it in extra range on the disruptor
  • Cruiser
    • Blackbird ~ good cruiser specialized jammer no DPS
    • Caracal ~ good cheap missile boat
    • Eagle Excellent long range cruiser sniper, good with blasters too.
    • Onyx ~ excellent Heavy interdictor
    • Falcon ~ Ecellent Jammer
    • Rook ~ phenomenal DPS and jamming too fear the rook
  • Destroyer
    • Flycatcher ~ fast and weakly armored but good interdictor
  • Battleships
    • Rokh ~ Either blaster fit for in your face damage, or rails for the long range hit ~ still lacking a extra 25m/3 as all the other battleships have. * thats for you Kirirth
  • Battlescruisers
    • Ferox ~ Excellent as a blaster or more often as a Sinper fit

*Nighthawk and Vulture were left out as I have very limited experience seeing them or fighting them to give a reasonable opinions

*Widow and the Golem were also left out while they are some excellent ships I have encountered niether in  PvP

Minmatar

Minmatar ships get bonus’s to speed as a result many people flocked to these ships priot to the speed rebalancing done before the Apocrypha expansion.  These ships can take a large number of skills to pilot exceptionally well although some specilization in Artillary / Autocannons work well.  Tanking these ships can be tough depending on the ship as mids slots ( for shields and low slots for armor are eveny split…making deciding which way to go somewhat difficult.

Minmatar ships to avoid using in PvP:

  • Frigates
    • Breacher
    • Burst
    • Slasher
    • jaguar ~ good mission runner but I have had very lackluster results in fights
    • Claw ~ Recent use of this ship ( while VERY fast) she only has 2 mids which dictate the max lock time and speed
  • Destroyers

    • Edited and moved to the recomended side
  • Cruisers
    • Bellicose ~ underpowered and useless
    • Scythe ~ mining /support sruiser NOT pvp boat
    • Scimitar ~ unless oyur with a fleet/large group you’re a target
  • Battelcruisers
    • Cyclone ~ worthless piece of junk ~ sorry folks this one is no good
  • Battleships
    • Typhoon ~ very very diifcult to fit quite right….good drone bay but split damage and split defenses gimp this ship

Minmatar ship that can be good in PvP

  • Frigates
    • Probe ~ Good scouting ship
    • Rifter ~ Excellent PvP ship!
    • Vigil ~ poor mans tackler good in this role
    • Firetail ~ ask Mynxee and Roc Wheeler
    • Wolf ~ very good PvP ship
    • Hyena ~ with the boost to target painters ( again why launch missiles in pvp) this bonus is debateable but the boost to webbing range is excellent!
    • Raptor ~ excellent tackler with 2 Sensor boosters and a point  or 1 SB and a web and point + MWD  very effective tackling ship.  With the 2 SB you get a scan res of almost 2880 and a .8 second lock time on a  pod
  • Destroyers
    • Thrasher~  way too paper thin to take in small gangs large number may be effective operative word “may’. EDITED According to many operating these ships in a pack of ships makes their alpha  a thing to be feared…hence I moved em over here to the recommended side of the house ~ Manasi
    • Sabre ~ excellent
  • Cruisers

    • Rupture ~ excellent ship
    • Stabber ~ another very effective ship
    • Stabber fleet issue
    • Muninn ~ interceptor beware
    • Vagabond ~ one of the great T2 cruisers in the game even after the speed changes
    • Broadsword ~ a favorite of mine a heavy interdictor that can survive multiple Doomsday’s
    • Huginn ~ long range webbing Frigate killer par excellence
    • Rapier ~ Force recon FTW
  • Battlecruisers
    • Hurricane ~ very effective with good firepower at decent speed, with drone support
  • Battleships
    • Tempest ~ effective  fleet boat good at range also good up close
    • Maelstrom ~ dangerous to be sure equally effective at range and in your face
    • Tempest Fleet issue upgraded a ship that was already good to very good.

* Slepnir and Claymore I have not seen an effective use for in PvP doesn’t mean they don’t existI jus have not seen it.

* Panther and the Vargur ~ both have been at the recieving ends of my guns difficult to say without more intel on effectiveness.

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~ by Manasiv5 on June 25, 2009.

15 Responses to “Caldari & Minmatar ships and reccomendations in PvP”

  1. There is a ton of Cyclone-made kills on our killboard, just shows that you have never seen a good 'clone pilot. Also putting the Cerb on the useless side is laughable. The fact that you need godlike skills to fly it to full potential is nothing new. Vaga also sucks when you lack skills. Scorp is effective on every battlefield. It just can't keep up with ultrafast gangs. But hey, even arriving late it can dominate the battle. Unlike falcon it can withstand some punishment when armor-tanked and does some mean jamming.
    Putting drake in the red is also pretty stupid. Yup, it's a missile boat but it's tanky and fully insurable. With good HAM skills it dishes out pain and can still take a beating. With so many missile-oriented characters out there the Drake is actually viable as an entry-level pvp BC.

    You're giving advice based on hearsay and opinions from people who obviously lack imagination. Also the world does not end at tiny paper ships that you obviously prefer. Just stick to other topics or at least give advice about stuff you know first hand.

  2. If you want I can give you a demonstration of how "useless" my Claw is… >:)) And yeah, putting the Rapier in with a BC is just wrong.

    On the Caldari side, go see the AMC killboard to see how good the Cerb is at The PvP 🙂

  3. Just for what it's worth, the Rapier isn't a Battlecruiser. Nice ship, but not a BC.

  4. @manasi The trick is a little known matari secret: Alpha works with small artillery even if it sucks balls at the BS level. A pack of 280mm packing Thrashers can put out frightening alpha at decent range. But you have to fly them like eggshells armed with sledgehammers. That last part is the reason they need to operate in wolf packs or as part of a FW minor site squadron. If you can setup a yoyo they become very hard to deal with. Like a good section of matari ships, in the hands of competent ship handlers they are deadly, in other hands, death traps.

  5. Yes Cyclone is a PVE boat …not sure how 2 low slots will do all that much….in packs ( if you can all get lock fast enough) you might have something there.

  6. You got Raptor between Minmatar ships as well.

    I would not play those missile boats down so hard. Once a pilot realizes the weaknesses of missiles, it is not so bad to fight them. You engage from shorter distances, use target painters and do not pretend to snipe with them.

    Cerberus, for example, even being a missile boat is a great PvP ship with big potential. I vouch for it to get on blue list, please.

  7. Cyclone is a PvE boat – it's actually prety good when setup correctly for that – a perma active shield tank.
    Thrasher – Useless in large fleet battles – death on wheels when properly used. This is one ship where you need to pile on the mobility and the gank – a bit more gank, and as much gank as you can pile on. Once you do that it no longer sucks. Thrasher wolfpacks can be horribly horribly deadly.

  8. Woot for the shout out about the Rokh's drone bay! Only with a million voices can we change the world… or some inspiring crap like that.

    Also, the Harpy is not a slouch as a blaster boat.

    Further, I question the use of the Merlin and Navy Hookbill in PvP. My experience with the Merlin is that its too slow and the spilt weapon systems with no damage bonus makes it lacklustre at best, really only good at tanking (for a tech 1 frig). And the Hookbill is a more expensive Merlin.

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