He who giveth, also taketh away?

Welcome to the ninth installment of the EVE Blog Banter and its first contest, the monthly EVE Online blogging extravaganza created by CrazyKinux. The EVE Blog Banter involves an enthusiastic group of gaming bloggers, a common topic within the realm of EVE Online, and a week to post articles pertaining to the said topic. The resulting articles can either be short or quite extensive, either funny or dead serious, but are always a great fun to read! Any questions about the EVE Blog Banter should be directed here. Check out other EVE Blog Banter articles at the bottom of this post!

“Last month Ga’len asked us which game mechanic we would most like to see added to EVE. This month Keith “WebMandrill” Nielson proposes to reverse the question and ask what may be a controversial question: Which game mechanic would you most like to see removed completely from EVE and why? I can see this getting quite heated so lets keep it civil eh?”

So what would I take away?

To be honest, I thought about many things.

I asked members of my Corporation for inspiration.  Several ideas were talked about.

So without further ado…

I would remove from the current local chat window system (in High Security, Low security and Null security space) the icon or picture of  who is in system unless they talked.

Current Model for the change

Wormhole Space, as of Apocrypha expansion.

What would removing local do to the game?

In my opinion of course….

  • It would make all space a bit more dangerous.
  • People would have to rely on scouts for intelligence reports and it would make scouts and battlefield intelligence required, rather than optional.
  • People would rely on system probers for intelligence in addition to people at the gates.
  • People would form fleets for protection
  • People would watch intelligence channels closely
  • Scouts would be posted
  • Life in game would move on
  • People would adapt and overcome

What do I think the reaction to the community might be?

Fear of the unknown

  1. Anger
  2. Bitterness
  3. Rage
  4. Disgust
  5. Loathing
  6. Massive posts about ruining this and ruining that
  7. Furor over a ‘drastic change’

What would it bring to the game?

I think that it would allow people to develop other skills to gather intelligence.  I can think of four such tools:

The F10 map that shows pilot activity/ships in system/pods destroyed/Cyno’s lit.

People stationed at gates giving intelligence about ships jumping.

People in ships, probing to monitor systems for activity.

People would look at and use sovereignty maps

Allow new player to learn a skill that would be highly valuable

Allow Veterans to really hone their combat skills

Remove the tactic for those who ‘cloak for safety’

What things that would have to be balanced to enable this?

Cloaking would have to be ‘redone’, without an adjustment to cloaking macro ratters ( which I have seen plenty of) would multiply like roaches

  1. With local ‘gone’ cloaking would have to be left to Covert Operations Ships.  Period. Nothing except Covert operation ships could even FIT a cloak.No more cloaking Carriers / Dreads and yes even dreaded Titans and Mother ships would be a bit more vulnerable.   Although if stored at a POS not necessarily more so than they are now, where everyone knows a particular alts name and knows when the titans are online by watching the name of the player.
  2. Macro ratters would be eliminated with removing cloaking fields from the hundreds of ratting Ravens…they would obviously adopt other method.
  3. The ability for someone to hide by activating a module would be elimnated.  Stay and fight or run.

Overall thoughts and opinions

I have mixed emotions about something like this, as a scout I know how much I rely on a local window for quickly showing me who is in a system, so I can imagine the heartburn associated with this.  I can also imagine how without people knowing how many people are in system ( until spy networks and intelligence channels are followed religiously) nervous people will be.  One of the benefits is that it give “mid-level’ players something to do while training for larger ships (if that is what they want) as intelligence will be crucial and highly regarded when it is right and blasted when it is wrong.  It would lead to surprises.  people could still see cyno’s to know something was coming….I think it would allow bother veterans and new players to have a equally vital role.  While a veteran would have to rely on the new player for “eyes’, the new player could observe how things are done from the veteran.

Well there is my thought.  I admit it would be drastic but I certainly think it would be a good thing to happen.  So, dear reader, what do you think?

Check out the others writing on this as well!

  1. Diary of a Space Jockey, Blog Banter: BE GONE!
  2. EVE Newb, (EVE) Remove You
  3. Miner With Fangs, Blog Banter – It’s the Scotch
  4. The Eden Explorer, Blog Banter: The Map! The Map!
  5. The Wandering Druid of Tranquility, “Beacons, beacons, beacons, beacons, beacons, mushroom, MUSHROOM!!!”
  6. Inner Sanctum of the Ninveah, Kill the Rats
  7. Mercspector @ EVE, Scotty
  8. EVE’s Weekend Warrior, EVE Blog Banter #9
  9. Miner with Fangs, Blog Banter – It’s the Scotch
  10. A Merry Life and a Short One, Eve Blog Banter #9: Why Won’t You Die?
  11. Into the unknown with gun and camera, Blog Banter – The Hokey Cokey
  12. The Flightless Geek, EVE Blog Banter #9: Remove a Game Mechanic
  13. Sweet Little Bad Girl, Blog Banter 9: Who is Nibbling at My House?
  14. One Man and His Spaceship, Blog Banter 9: What could you do without?
  15. Life in Low Sec, EVE Blog Banter #9: Stop Tarnishing My Halo
  16. Cle Demaari: Citizen, Blog Banter #9: Training for all my men!
  17. A Mule in EVE, He who giveth, also taketh away?
  18. Dense Veldspar, Blog Banter 9
  19. Morphisat’s Blog, Blog Banter #9 – Randomness Be Gone !
  20. Facepalm’s Blog, EVE Blog Banter #9: What a new pilot could do without
  21. Memoires of New Eden, You’re Fired
  22. Kyle Langdon’s Journeys in EVE, EVE Blog Banter #9 Titans? What’s a Titan?
  23. Achernar, The gates! The gates are down!
  24. Speed Fairy, EVE Blog Banter #9: Down with Downtime!
  25. I am Keith Neilson, EVE Blog Banter #9-F**K Da Police
  26. Ripe Lacunae, The UI… Where do I begin… (Eve Blog Banter #9)
  27. Clown Punchers, EvE Blogs: What game mechanic would you get rid of?
  28. Estel Arador Corp Services, You’ve got mail
  29. Epic Slant, Let Mom and Pop Play: EVE Blog Banter #9
  30. Deaf Plasma’s EVE Musings, Blog Banter #9 – Removal of Anchoring Delay of POS modules
  31. Podded Once Again, Blog Banter #9 – Do we really need to go AFK?
  32. Postcards from EVE, 2009.07.02.00.29.06
  33. Harbinger Zero, Blog Banter #9 – War Declarations & Sec Status
  34. Warp Scrammed, Blog Banter 9 – Never Too Fast
  35. Ecaf Ersa (EVE Mag), Can a Tractor Tractor a Can?
  36. Mike Azariah, I don’t put much stock in it…
  37. Rettic’s Log, Blog Banter: Overview Overload
  38. A Sebiestor Scholar, [OOC] EVE Blog Banter #9: Slaves
  39. Diary of a pod pilot, [OOC] EVE blog banter #9: Because of Falcon
  40. Roc’s Ramblings, Blog Banter #9 – Taking Things Slow
  41. The Gaming-Griefer, EVE Sucks, But I Love It: The Memoir of a Masochist
  42. Letrange’s EVE Blog, Blog Banter #9: Bye Bye Learning Skills
  43. Lyietfinvar, Remove that monopoly
  44. Sceadugenga, Blog Banter #9
  45. Industrialist with Teeth, EVE Blog Banter #9

*Edit I added the new folks who have added this

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~ by Manasiv5 on June 30, 2009.

18 Responses to “He who giveth, also taketh away?”

  1. Congrats on winning the 3rd prize in the EVE Banter contest!

  2. I think removing local in Empire is stupid.

    I think it would be interesting in Null Sec, but in requiring you to probe to find targets would suck for guys learning the ropes in their first few T1 frigs and cruisers.

    Requiring probing to be a decent low sec pirate, would hinder newbies, at least in my opinion… those of us who have been playing for forever would adapt, but noob pirates would probably get frustrated with the insane potential difficulty in finding targets.

  3. I'm a little torn between the idea of keeping it in high sec, delayed in lowsec and absent in nullsec…or this idea of just ousting it completely.

    Something I think a lot of people forget in the discussion of all this is that just as you can't see who is in system when you enter, you can't see if that big bully is hanging around somewhere….. neither can he see you. Sure, he can scan, but as long as your changing the name of your ship, you look like everyone else in system that ISN'T a war target.

  4. As a new-ish player (2 months in), I'm not certain how useful local is in high sec. Sure, we use it in our war fleets to see when an enemy pilot enters the system, and it allows us to move around in the safe and certain knowledge that we are not about to be jumped by a bad guy – but then I'd argue in support of Manasi's point above, that it would increase the value of scouting no end, and that this would represent a really handy thing to learn. But then, I'm in Eve university and training CovOps for a reason!

  5. I don't see many of the suggested benefits of removing local applying to high sec. Logistically, using scouts to try and keep up with the comings and goings in a busy high sec system would be a nightmare to do manually. Same for probers. High sec is about not having to form fleets for protection. New players in high sec have enough to learn already. Can't see veterans honing their skills in high sec. Using sovereignty maps doesn't apply to high sec (or low sec either).

    I don't think taking Local away from high sec is a good thing. I'm unsure about it in low sec or null sec. My concern is that removing it will require so much more effort by scanners and probers to keep up with manually that it would lead to too many resources being assigned to the job. How many PvPers would want that assignment?

  6. Another upside to this is that players outside of nullsec would be more tempted to go ratting or exploring in nullsec, because as it stands, the moment you step in a system, the alliance controlling said system is aware of your presence and you know there is a 90% chance that a gang is looking for you. That would both bring newer players to 0.0, make it less useless than it currently is.

    And for you pirates out there, to get to nullsec you need to go through low sec, so all in all, more fun for you i suppose 🙂

  7. CCP has stated that if they are going to do this there will be some way to actively and easily tell who is in the system. Instead of the passive method that is local.

  8. Yes, Local needs to die a painful death. And no, not even a "delayed local" is acceptable. Just kill the bloody thing.

    As for the effect on cloakers I also completely agree. Proper cloakers are one thing, cloaks on other ship types is just cowardness. The Viator is a blockade runner so you're safe Mynxee :))

  9. I like KK's ideas about Local delays but DO NOT take my cloaky transport ship from my other me or I will biomass my toons, emoragequit, and cancel my accounts. LOL. Can you tell my "business associate" loves her Viator? Re cloaking, I wouldn't mind a mechanic wherein the cloak on any ship that had weapons fitted would deactivate after a few minutes and need to be manually reactivated.

  10. I can support removing local from 0.0 and making it like W-space. I think low sec should be delayed local for like 60-90 seconds. And High sec immediate like it is now.

    I haven't thought about the cloaking issue like you have. Interesting. I like the idea of being able to run silent in a system and hide from the enemy and cloaks give that with a decent trade off right now. Maybe I could support making the fitting penalties of cloaks more punishing so fitting a cloak makes a combat ship well nigh useless.

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