Wrapped around the Axle

It seems as if I have hit a nerve or something with my constant recommendations AGAINST missile boats in PvP.

My opinion, the problem with missile boats is the DELAY.  In the case or rockets/assault missiles  is RANGE/DELAY.

We all fight the range issue with different degrees of success/failure so I will leave that one alone as it by far the most complex.

Examples

Lets take 4 battleships and look at some numbers…about how long it takes for damage to be applied:

  • all level 5 skills
  • 3 damage enhancements to each package ( ballistic controls, Magnetic Field Stabilizers, Gyrostabilzers, and Heat Sinks)
  • Tracking computers for enhanced optimal
  • All tech 2 damage and Advanced ammo types…DRONE damage NOT included..

** True DPS is taking the Volley Damage divided by either the flight time or the duration time to get raw DPS numbers why these differ from EFT I do not know unless they use an average to count for fighting in falloff.

Raven Raven Maelstrom Maelstrom Megathron Megathron Apocalypse Apocalypse
Cruise Missiles Torpedoes Artillery Auto-cannon Rails Blasters Mega Beam Mega Pulse
EFT Optimal 227.8 26 124 6.9 148 6.8 193 28
EFT DPS 349 734 338 622 312 949 276 743
EFT Volley 3168 4439 3506 2152 1747 4113 1603 3223
Flight Time 27 9.6 0 0 0 0 0 0
Duration Time 7.39 6.04 10.35 3.45 5.6 4.3 4.9 4.3
True DPS 117.33 734.93 338.74 623.77 311.96 956.51 327.14 749.53

Data interpretation

** note there are lies, damned lies, and then statistics.  I am human I do screw up occasionally but I think the work is fairly solid

## when a missile hits the end of it’s range it explodes and does not do damage

## when guns exceed optimal range they work in a falloff  which reduces the chance to hit a fair bit but it does NOT mean they cannot kill you.

In your Face Damage

  1. Megathron Blasters
  2. Apocalypse Mega Pulse
  3. *Maelstrom Auto-Cannon
  4. *Raven Torpedo

Long Range Damage

  1. Maelstrom Artillery
  2. Apocalypse Mega Beam
  3. Megathron Rails
  4. *Raven Cruise Missiles

* note the difference between the EFT DPS of the cruise missile Raven and my number..my number takes into account FLIGHT time  which is the major problem I have with missile boat DPS…obviously at close range there is a less dramatic effect.

In the Torpedo Raven as Range increases from 16.987 KM  to max at 27.000 KM… DPS drops from 734 DPS to 462 DPS.

Conversely in the Cruise Missile Raven ( AT LONG range say 100KM +)the initial hit will take a  long time followed up by the duration time so DPS will increase after the initial delay from 117.33 DPS to 349 DPS.

Blasters and the others will also be fighting in Falloff so the falloff calculations would have to be taken into effect.  As no target stands still numbers will vary a large amount.

2 volleys from a Apocalypse  take 8.6 seconds or 6446 damage ( raw) meanwhile your torpedoes from the raven have not hit him yet and if he stays at <26 KM you will miss him.

Variability in damage and time to delay is whyI say what I do

Final Thoughts

People love the ships they fly whether I or anyone else says something different does not mean that your ship sucks or mine is better the PILOT is what is important followed up by HOW YOU USE IT, then lastly the equipment limitations.

Since 2007 I have yet to see a Torpedo Raven in PvP.

Hope this sheds a little light on why I think what I do.

~TheMule

*Editors Note The table was my attempt to make something difficult to understand  a bit more understandable.  Yes, it shows the extreme ends of the whole spectrum so by far it is not the most definitive table in existence.  What do I mean by this..close in weapons used the highest DPS closest range ammo ( note the rage torps not the javelins) Highest range weapons were set to long range ammo. ( T2 of course).

Thanks for the comments I know they are well intentioned didn’t mean for the chart to be misleading.

Kirith Kodachi comment was particularly concise

I get what you are saying about the flight time affecting the damage with it starting low and increasing over time. Your “True DPS” is more of a moving target of modified DPS based on a time variable function and is not a single number. As you said, when fighting at max range and t=0-26 the damage/sec is 0, but as t=27 the dps is 117, and as the next volley comes in 7.39 seconds the dps increases again. I think your table should more accurately reflect that as it can be misleading right now.

~M

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~ by Manasiv5 on July 15, 2009.

19 Responses to “Wrapped around the Axle”

  1. Having finally setup a T2 tempest, I can appreciate the above damage table. I have flown ravens for ages and the "waiting" for the DPS to start taking effect was a drag.

    Time to try a gank-a-thron…

    Bluefleye

  2. fair enough I will await the invite 🙂

  3. Thanks Kirith you certainly said it much better than i did, with even less words. I really liked my table when I started…

  4. Two comments:
    1) Agree that long range fighting with missiles is almost pointless. Instant damage weapons are far superior in that case.

    2) I get what you are saying about the flight time affecting the damage with it starting low and increasing over time. Your "True DPS" is more of a moving target of modified DPS based on a time variable function and is not a single number. As you said, when fighting at max range and t=0-26 the damage/sec is 0, but as t=27 the dps is 117, and as the next volley comes in 7.39 seconds the dps increases again. I think your table should more accurately reflect that as it can be misleading right now.

    Good work, cheers!

  5. duration and flight time are not comparable. I presume you have actually flown a cruise raven and you understand that you can actually have more than one volley in the air at a time. Your launchers have a duration. By ignoring that and instead substituting flight time you are much closer to lies than statistics.

  6. Couple of comments–

    1. TORP ravens are used frequently in PVP as they do pretty decent damage and allow you to tailor the damage type to your opponent. They also offer other bonuses such as not missing and pumping a sustained damage out.

    2. A problem I have with your table is that you assume everyone fights at the max distance of their weapons at all times. When was the last time you held a 24km warp disruptor on someone from over 200k away? There is a tradeoff between getting that type of range and actually participating in pvp.

    3. Missiles as I previously mentioned have other pros that guns do not. the damage type can be changed on the fly, they never miss unless you exceed range, and they dont have any issues with tracking speed. Try hitting something with your mega beam lasers as it orbits you at 5000m. Even a slow moving battleship in that close of an orbit might be hard to hit without some tracking scripts.

    just my 2 cents.

  7. some wrong information, my raven (all level 5 skills) with javelin torps will shoot ~45km =_=

  8. Nice work.

    You know, it only took me the time it takes to completely train up missile and shield skills to realize that Caldari ships generally suck at PvP – especially solo PvP : / I'm flying Amarr now.

    Let the Caldari diehards cry all they want about it. Those are the same guys that insist on letting us beat them up. >:D

  9. Awesome analysis!

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