Against the grain

Hey all perhaps you might care to enlighten me.

Why do people dislike the “big blob”?  I hear lots of people I respect and admire all say I want small gang warfare etc..Why is that?

I honestly do not know.  I like the small fleets but I also REALLY like the large scale tactical engagements.

I have run in small gangs and huge 250 man fleets, so I have seen the spectrum and I do not understand why people seem to dislike the large fleets so much.

It is not that I think people are not telling me the truth.  I think they believe that there is something inherently ‘bad’ about a large fleet, or groups of fleets or whatever.  People lament all the time of I got killed by a ‘blob’ and then many people lament, ” Oh I hate blobs”

Large fleets are simply spectacular and I can see where things might need to be tweaked rather than eliminated.

Lag from large fights is I think a major culprit

Try this to help:

    • Filter your damned overview
      • I run 8 different overview setups
    • Turn off brackets
    • Minimize local

Inability to understand target  calls

    • Try sorting by something Alpha, ship types etc

Other than these two reasons… what am I missing? Is there some huge glaring issue that maybe people could point to?

The floor is yours please let me know.

Thanks to DSJ for getting us started, hi assertion ( which I believe BTW) is that no one wants to be out numbered…if that is the case don’t undock…Thanks DSJ for getting the ball rollling!

So thanks to some very good comments the problem is feeling helpless against superior numbers, which admittedly is understandable.

Next task on the checklist get people to stop saying “I hate blobs”, and remind them that “they fear being out numbered”

Please add comments if you like!  I certainly appreciate those that took time to write in.

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~ by Manasiv5 on November 5, 2009.

16 Responses to “Against the grain”

  1. To be honest, I agree that big fleets are fun. I’m a permenant 0.0 dweller, and I find most of the time in small gang roams I’ve had very little success, and personally to date I haven’t had much satisfaction roaming.
    With big roaming nlobs, I’m amazed they ever kill anything. They light up intel channels like nothing else and if people are paying attention they safe up as soon as they see anyone in system, and you dont get cowboys trying to kill you in a small group because vs a blob its suicide. Well, thats my experience.

    Now, a fleet with a set goal or target where there is the chance of a huge scrap is the most awesome thing in eve… Just filter blues from the overview!! I used to fly heavy interdictors a lot, so I’m used to being primary target, and I dont care if I die, But I do see how people can be frustrated by the speed at which they lose their ship when the enemy fc wants you dead.
    I’m one of those strange people who lile POS bashing. Its kinda theraputic- and usually a fair defence force comes to play when the target tower comes out of reinforced, so I see a lot of fighting. I also love my new dreadnought.
    Nothing can compare to a group of fifty dreads and supporting carriers coming back from a tower kill and fighting an enemy battleship blob off of a station. With such numbers, cyno bumpage is a pain though 😦
    All in all, I dont see why people hate big fleets and capitals. Just get your intel set up properly and you’ll never lose your ship to a roaming blob ever again!

  2. The only time I have ever felt blobbed was when coming through a gate. There was a large gate camp going on. Apaprently had stumbled upon an alliance fleet. It was a disatisfying experience in that the life expectancy of my ship was 10 seconds after the cloak faded. I did try to afterburn to the gate (Stuck in a bubble) but I evaporated in those 10 seconds. In that situation there was absolutely nothing I could do.

    That feeling of helplessness definitly didnt help my feelings towards blobs.

  3. That would be an interesting statistic to unearth: how capable and how often can people run away from a BLOB?

    Since I have no experience I can only speak from what I have heard – i.e. BLOBS at a gate camp, you’re toast. BlOBS of frigates in 0.0 – good luck. etc.

    But nothing like hard statistics that would inform how to escape a BLOB once you encounter it. I know, looking at the big map helps – if it is providing current info, which I have discovered is not always the case. Seems to be some kind of delay on “pilots docked” on big map.

    Cheers and thanks for comment on my comment.

    • My last comment was too harsh sounding Dante. You have an excellent train of thought, and my failure to describe exactly what I mean is important. escaping from the superior numbers take s a bit more patience than many give. I live by my bookmarks. Ever system I frequent has 200KM and sometimes 300KM off bookmarks on the entrance and the exit gates. This is a matter of habit with me so many people may not know that.
      I also have mid point bookmarks and various others that assist me in escaping should i need to.
      Even my overview settings are setup to allow me to escape should the need arise. As such I am often not caught leaving…but if I am caught it is due to warping IN to a fight.

      i would like statistics of that type too…sure would be good to see 🙂

  4. Interesting discussion. Too bad I can’t comment since I don’t really have much PvP experience and definitely none with Fleet.

    But I do hear a lot about how people hate blobs. I think the most common complaint is the lack of balance if you come up against a huge fleet. Unlike Han Solo – you just can’t runaway most of the time …

    • Wrong. You can run away if you need to. Look at my win /loss record…running when overcome can work. People panic I think, and then it is too late. I also hear this but as we are discovering it is the feeling of helplessness.

      Personally I don’t feel helpless ever. There is always something I can do. Thanks for your comments.

  5. I read this this morning and thought I have comment on this.

    I agree entirely with DSJ, blobing is when there is such a large amount of enemies that you ave no options to respond to their attacks. I think the other instance that other people complain about where you are in a large fleet and get called primary and with the amount of alpha you are insta-popped. Again there is nothing you can do. So perhaps thats another reason people dislike blobs.

    However I usually fly solo and so i consider those gangs of 5+ to be a blob, as such it always amazes me when I see a blog post celebrating solo kills while the poster was out in a gang roam. Its not like its that hard to kill a solo player when you have 5 ships to their 1. The only difficulty lies in catching them. While there is skill in that thats only one player in the gang that needs to be skillful. ergo I consider a 5 man gang to be a blob.

    • Everything is relative I admit. While I may disagree with your point (5 be ing a blob) I certainly understand it better thanks to your comments

  6. A 30-man fleet against a 15-man fleet is not ‘blob warfare’ because the odds are 2:1. There’s still an achievable victory for the smaller fleet, depending on ship compositions and fittings, and the skill of their fleet commander.

    No, ‘blob warfare’ as a negative is when a 30-man fleet goes looking for single targets to give them a 30:1 advantage, and then they think they’re so cool ’cause they always win. It’s the ‘pack mentality’, where they’re tough against small targets, but put them against an equal force (whether it’s from the size of the fleet or decent firepower), and they’re cowards.

    ‘Large tactical fleet engagements’ are, in my opinion, very different to roaming fleets looking for single targets of opportunity.

    ‘Blobs’ are packs of weak bullies looking for weaker victims, rather than ‘fleets’ looking for strategic or tactical gain.

  7. My experiences in eve that I would directly relate to being “Blobbed” have not been being attacked by a superior force per se, but being in a position where it was impossible to respond. I have deliberately engaged superior forces before while solo or in a small team … and sometimes ended up getting my ass handed to me… That doesn’t generate any animosity on my part because I knew what was possible and what might happen. My one gripe about “Blob” warfare has been with gate camping experiences. Losing a ship just because you came through a gate and the campers have 15 BS with a million and one drones de-cloaking everything is not really about PVP. I have had fun running through a gate camp in my hauler when it was just 2 or 3 pirates out for a score (and either laughing at them or warping off in my pod as I tried to pull it off and failed). In both cases I was being attacked and in both situations I’ve lost ships. A “Blob” as I see the term is a group of people attempting to reduce a PVP encounter to a what is essentially a PVE encounter. I call it a PVE encounter because the defending player really has no options and is in an impossible to win situation much like any PVE ship in an asteroid belt. I have a long loss list… and I learned something from the losses and after summing up those lessons and adapting I have a list of kills to go with it. A true PVP player is going to hate the losses but does actually get something from them. The ships I’ve lost to those experiences I think of as “Blobs” I have to say have been entirely negative … you can’t learn a lesson or get better from an attack that simply destroys you instantly or offers no avenue for avoidance.

  8. I think kinolyen hit it pretty well on. I love large fleets as well. I love seeing a massive group of ships converging on the enemy in long, drawn out battles. I enjoy the empowering feeling it gives you to be part of something so grand.

    But I also love the small fleet roams, where, like kinolyen said, gives you a very personal feeling, a knowledge that every person, each individual, is a very important piece to the survival of your group. That sort of feeling gets lost in large fleets. Although people need to remember that large fleets are only created with having everyone there and thus everyone is important.

    I also think the whole blob argument is just an excuse for a loss. That 15 man blob that complains of getting blobbed by a 30 man fleet, probably had no qualms about destroying that one lone ship passing by only minutes before. Or even that solo pirate who complains about getting shredded by some roaming 10 man gang, had no problems the day before flying in his own 5 man fleet to kill that lone raven.

  9. Although I'm not really engaging in PvP, from what I've learned about it I think there's another reason why people don't like large fleets. The bigger the fleet, the less visible is the individual contribution of a participant. Thus many people, apart from those filling the few vital roles, might feel interchangeable and unimportant. In small gangs on the other hand, everybody's performance is important, and the end result becomes much more fulfilling.

    It boils down to whether or not people like being part of a very big group with little space for individuality. Not everybody does.

  10. Its not the size of the fleet… It’s the relative size of the two sizes in the engagement. No PVP player enjoys being attacked at 5:1, 10:1, or larger odds with no chance of actual survival let alone a fight. That is what I think most people are talking about when they say “Blob”. Small gang warfare is simply held up as the ideal because for the most part it is more commonly a “fair” fight.

    • Here is my issue with this. If you run a small gang what is the likelihood you will run into a bigger gang? All relative I am sur,e but running a 15 man fleet into a 30 man fleet still faces the same issue. Good points though, well thought out. I appreciate the opinion!

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