Us em -vs- fly em

http://norsesforcourses.blogspot.com/ posted a good  question on his blog. His question.  As a Director inside a Corp that is known for it’s pilots skills, I pay attention to issues like this. I also thought it deserved a post.  So thanks for asking a very good question. Oh and BTW the forum people telling you not to go to 0.0  simply due to the 2M SP number is short sighted

You DO NOT NEED 10M – 15M skill points to move to 0.0, this is utter bullshit and rubbish

I will use CEPTA as an example we REQUIRE pilots to have a minimum of 10M SP to even join CEPTA, but that doesn’t mean you can have 2Million and be a very skilled pilot in your ship. Our requirement does not MEAN your a good pilot either it just lets us judge pilots over a longer period of time… We want our pilots to be able to field VARIOUS different ships…not just one.  That’s why we have a minimum skill point requirement. SO yes we ave a large SP requirement but we do it for some very sound tactical reasons, that sadly I cannot divulge here.

This brings me to the second point.  Just because you can sit in the damned seat of the ship and undock it, does not mean you should USE it in combat.  The other reason  that we have a SP restriction is by the time you HAVE 10M SP you have learned this one way or another.

examples for you

Pilot 1 a Caldari Pilot ( 53% of EVE according to EyojG 4th Qaurter QEN) who has 2M SP you can sit in a Ferox, yet you do not have medium railgun  skill past level 1, nor any of the supporting skills past level 1 either. Would I let you bring that out to a fight. HELL NO.

  • minimum amount of time to even fly this is 3D 17H 7M
  • Minimum amount of time required to T2 fit this ship 60D 11H 24M

Pilot 2 is also a Caldari Pilot he also has 2M SP , he undocks in a Merlin fit with an MWD 2 Railguns 2 Standard launchers and a Warp Disruptor, would i bring him to a fight…hell YES.

  • minimum amount of training required to fly this 20H 20M
  • Minimum amount of time required to T2 fit this ship 15D 2H 22M

So what this means is that someone who has a good deal of skill in a smaller  ship has actually had the time to not only fit it so that it can survive, but also have had some time to actually use it and IMPROVE his skills and therefore the abilities of his ship.

You folks know my thought about the Caldari shield tank boats in PvP so I will no belabor that point I used this as an example of what a Director looks at, and what goes through his head, when he calls for people to undock and some have a T1 Frigate and some have a Battle cruiser. Sometimes people wonder why many(myself included)  would prefer the frigate rather than the Battle cruiser in many circumstances.

**Note the are Approximate numbers and to truly be effective some of the engineering skills that would help tremendously were left out.

Yes I know there are other skills in there but the point being is that starting small, and using the small ship will I guarantee make you a better pilot in the larger ships…all the skills needed to fly the smaller ships will also help out in the larger ones as well as skill are cumulative

Why is this:

As the skills needed increase do do the sub-skills needed to be able to use the ship effectively it can be thought of  as a exponential type of scale.

Simply every time you increase the class of the ship:

Frigate -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Battleship -> Capital -> Supercapital

You increase both the number of skills and the level they must be at.  Is it purely exponential?  NO probably not…but it IS a general rule that works.

For those of you wanting into an alliance the above numbers are good enough to show that you have both the skill and the experience  inside a given ship AND that you have learned how to fly it ( the Merlin example) that you would be a benefit to any 0.0 Corporation/Alliance

Those of you using the Ferox example as a reason to be allowed into the Corporation…you need to realize, not only have you not flown the ship, nor with the right modules, but because it takes longer to get into you have less experiences with it.Long and short…stay in small ships to you can USE them effectively BEFORE you get into the larger classes of ship…

Bonus Pro tip:  it is a cheaper way to get better.

TC and Good hunting

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~ by Manasiv5 on February 25, 2010.

9 Responses to “Us em -vs- fly em”

  1. I agree I think I forgot to mention that having a viable ratter is just a way of securing income and on pvp engagements start off with a small ship you can fly within optimal paramiters. I'm a firm beliver in the 'just because the shoe fits doesn't mean you should wear it' aproach to eve (found it out the hard way as well). I also think that alot of people think what use could I be to a 0.0 corp/alliance? ( I certanly thought that) but the fact is if you have a positive attitude and are willing to listen then you will be a valuable member to anyone.

  2. Hey I've been Reading your blogs on capsileer for a good few months (they keepe sane in work)

    I doubt you've heard of aarons little nullsec project, we basicly are trying to get new people into 0.0 life in npc space in stain I'm not gona cheerlead for it hear to much.
    When I forts went to 0.0 Id been running level 4s in my dominix Id made sure i was able to use most tech 2 drones and fit all the t2 armor tanking fits. So when I went into 0.0 and jumped into my myrmadon I quickly learned Id missed loads of support skills and my ships were pretty much useless apart from being a decent dps sponge I couldn't dish out much dps and boy was I slow…(still am to be fair). Basicly we say to people who want to come down here make sure you can fit out a decent ratting cruiser preferably a battlecruiser and then your good to go. What I'm trying to say is I came to 0.0 with low skillpoints and basicly clueless about anything other than running level 4s and I belive it's made me a much better player. I think coming to 0.0 early on allows you to see what the better part of eve is all about and what role you would like to play in it.

    • Agreed Specctor, my point was that starting small (frigate) and learning to fly them well ( getting all the support skills to decent levels) and then Moving on to the next ship class cruiser following the same model is the key.

  3. Right on brotha. Simple rule: Don't get into a ship unless you can fit T2 guns.

  4. Yeah, wish I'd known some of this when I first started pvping. My first stint in nullsec I spent a month or two flying failfit cruisers and bcs before I we joined a new alliance and I saw how much better a dedicated fleet of small ships with great fittings could be. Learned my lesson since then and I've been a ton happier training my way through frigate class skills and now into the cruiser class skills.

    Helped immensely to switch from caldari rail boats to matari gun boats too, lol.

  5. I can't agree more on this, people tend to forget being able to fly something and being able to _properly_ fly something is hugely different.

    I myself have 9 million skill points and at the moment I fly a Battlecruiser. I could've been flying a battleship for a few weeks now but I'd have to fit undersized guns because I can't fit the BS guns yet. I also just have T1 turrets on my BC but they perform quite well.

    And a skill point minimum is nonsense, you can fly perfectly fine in null-sec with 2-3m skill points, might just not have many possibilities in ship types.

  6. I have been suckered into the lure of newer/shinier/bigger ships but I've managed to curb it at cruisers for now and I'm skilling up for all the tech2 stuff I can get my hands on (starting at frigate stuff and working up).
    I'd suggest to anyone wanting to give 0.0 a shot just go for it, jump in with both feet. As long as you're not afraid to get podded (don't go buying expensive implants)and willing to ask a lot of questions along the way you'll be fine (as long as your corp aren't asshats). The one thing I'd suggest as a semi requirement would be a ratting Battlecruiser and it only has to be tech 1 fit, you don't -need- it per say, but it'll make you're life so much easier.

    Thanks for the link too

  7. I support this post. I was young and foolish and I hurried my way up the ladder – frigate to cruiser to BC to BS, with inties and recons thrown in there too. While I could fly the higher class ships, I couldn't fit them effectively, nor fly them as well as I wanted. They went down quick, and didn't take things down effectively. Even in PVE – I lost ships in PVE that I shouldn't have lost. Part of that was pilot error, but also lack of skills put me at a disadvantage that magnified my mistakes.

    I started to wise up when I got to the point I could sit in a BS. I played with fittings in EFT and realized I couldn't field an effective ship. I never actually bought a BS. Same for recons. I've since gone back and back-filled the support skills I need. Now at 23 million SP, I really notice the difference. And there are still some skills to shore up yet.

    So I'm 100% behind Manasi on this subject.

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