Primary Target 'manasi'?

For those unaware we are currently fighting with two of our neighbors, Stain Empire (SE) & C0ven.  Initially SE/C0ven wanted to just go shoot IT alliance and run roaming gangs up and down that space.  IT Alliance would have none of it, and we simply said ‘this is stupid’ and we will not support you doing this. So they did not go roaming into IT space they came into our space in HHQ.  Initially, they said we want to just have friendly fights etc, then they setup SBU’s.

Needless to say this all happened last week.  We had some very long operations.

I was involved with several clashes with them Several with my Carrier, even more with my battleships.  it was a pretty good week for me at least as even though i was normally jammed, called primary or something else along those line I didn’t lose a single ship.  Mind you, the guys with names that begin with A or Z always get called primary in big fights but it was kind of surprising to me that they would call me a Primary, but so be it.

Their incursion into HHQ was stopped in the early morning hours today, all their POS’s ( including their 2  moon miners) and a Large POS that was very tough to kill.

All well and good, but ti brings up some questions of rthose of you whom have a little name recognition:

  1. DO you ever find yourself being called Primary?  I would imagine you do but I am curious…
  2. How do you deal with this?  I would imagine some of the same tactics I used but if your willing to share I’d love to hear it.

Clearly, SE/C0ven read the blog, which is nice and all but damned irritating I have to admit when you fight them.

In other news…I hate the drake.  Yes I admit, I have a pathological aversion to this most excellent PvE ship.I do not hate the pilots,but I do  loathe missiles . I cannot stand the ship in PvP fleets.

Yes, yes, yes, I know many good variants blah blah blah.  The reason I hate it is that it has 3 major weaknesses.

  • Weakness 1 BC have lower sensor scan resolution strength making a Sensor booster II a must
  • Weakness 2 BC are very slow necessitating the need for an MWD
  • Weakness 3 The Drake shoots missiles which at range take time ( which is the number 1 enemy) to hit

Lets recap: 1 SB II, 1 MWD and 1 Warp Disruptor (a.k.a a ‘Point’)( this is debatable but  preventing the enemy from warping away is a good thing) perhaps even another SB II…

The Drake having 6 Mid slots, would lose 3 mid slots if not four, which cripples it’s tank.  I so much prefer someone to be in a  fast tackler than a Drake.  Yes Drakes are cheap, but no where near as useful as a good interceptor or even a dirt cheap fast tackler or three( hell I can field roughly 10 rifters for the cost of 1 drake).

I will be talking to my corpmates and suggesting we never ever field them again…( as a general rule we do not field them, but every now and then a new guy does, once the laughter dies down, they switche to a Moa or a Ferox or a fast tackler/Interceptor)

James ( from the comments) brings up a  good point about the ship or the pilot…IF you can fly a drake in what others would consider effective, why wouldn’t you be equally effective  AND more skilled in a  gunboat?  It isn’t the pilot, it is the combination of the PILOT and the SHIP

Lastly, I do not get to brag about myself too often ( as not all that much is worth bragging about) but I did crack over 500 kills on our KB recently which is something I have been wanting to do for a VERY long time.

TC and safe jumping

~ by Manasiv5 on March 8, 2010.

10 Responses to “Primary Target 'manasi'?”

  1. I fly a Drake. I'm barely two months into the game, so the ability to have a ship that can handle my PvE and PvP all in one is very helpful. At least in my case, our alliance's reimbursement fittings are somewhat more forgiving of using named Missile Launchers in Drakes than using T1 Lasers in a Harbinger (YMMV in terms of alliance reimbursements). I certainly have never felt like a liability on ops in a Drake.

    I'm currently looking at retraining for a Harbinger, since I ultimately want to go to Amarr Battleships (T2 lasers) and I can already at least sit in the hull (Amarr Cruiser 3 for the Augoror), and it's better anti-support than a Drake (better locking, lasers fire instantly). Unfortunately, there's a lot of gunnery skills and armor-tanking skills that then have to added to my repertoire, meaning it'll be a while before I get to fly a Harbinger into battle.

    Fundamentally, it comes down to the fact that this is a game. Drakes may not be the most optimal ship for the gang, but if they're the ship people have handy or the ship people enjoy flying, then the choice isn't Drake vs. Hurricane/Harbinger or Drake vs. Battleship or Drake vs. Tackler, it may well be the choice between Drake or Nothing for many people.

  2. I can see where Drakes would not fit well into your sized fleets. In your case they are likely not the best choice. Especially if you are fighting in sniper fleets against sniper fleets. Drakes can still be good anti-support ships preventing tackle on your sniper fit BS, but likely the pilot would be better suited in a light tackle frig or interceptor at a tiny bit of the cost.

    However in small to mid sized gangs, the Drake's EHP, and DPS contribution, not to mention the flexibility of the HML version's range and envelope allows it to engage effectively in that style of combat. Also, you don't need a sensor booster at those ranges to be combat effective, freeing up more slots to tank, web or ewar.

    I think that Drakes get a very bad name from all the new pilots who fly them. Ineffective fittings, combined with poor pilots makes them one of the larger targets in the game, and easier in fact. The same pilot in the Ferox, or Moa or any other Caldari based rail/blaster platform with the same sense in fittings and skills will be just as bad, if not worse because their gun skills will not equal their missile skills. Once again it all comes down to situation and "clue." 🙂

  3. Yeah, I just started serouisly training(I have tech 2 small Lasers) into Gun skills after flying almost entirely Caldari ships(Podded some guy in my first Rifter kill ever yesterday) and I am finding it to be a long road.

    I think the reason why gun skills don't really appeal is that missiles are deadly and deadly throughout their range, wherein guns require you to do skills to increase your falloff range and your turret time and tracking, not to mention the many variations and what they do.

    Missiles really only require range training to be effective. I can nail targets at 103 KM in my Raven, as opposed to abysmal 15km range I have on my gank thrasher(I also podded a guy AFK in his pod in high sec. Lost 3 security doing that).

  4. Drake pilots (at least beginning Drake pilots) rarely have the gun skills to support a Ferox. My observations as to the root causes of this:

    – Most new pilots are Caldari
    – Most new pilots start out running missions for isk
    – A new pilot can be running Level 3's in a Drake in about a month (yes, with a crippled tank and crappy support skills, but it's all about the isk in the beginning…) That crappy Drake turns into a really decent PVE boat in about another month and a decent Raven in another couple of weeks. Going back to train up gun and gun support skills is not a very attractive option.

    At the core, missile skills and their support skills are primarily Caldari. New Caldari pilots who go for gun boats right away find it much easier to cross train to other races later because the support skills transfer.

    Early in Eve I caught a great deal of flack because as a Caldari pilot, I trained very limited missile skills and focused on gunnery. It wasn't that I was smarter or did more research. I just knew that I wanted to fly a sniper Rokh & hit things from 250km or a BlasteRokh & be in your face at 7km. To fly that boat & those fits required me to have T2 gun skills all the way down the line. So while my peers were our spamming missiles in their Drakes, I was rocking a Ferox.

    Now? Well, lets just say that LAZORS are fun, the Phantasm is cool and I'll be fitting a Fleet Issue Stabber tonight! 😉

    Cheers, Dee

    • The indomitable Mr. Dee Carson indeed, glad your still flying with us in New Eden. Phantasm kicks ass BTW, and the Fleet stabber should be equally fun! Let me know how it goes bro, I am always wishing you and the corp you fly with well..

  5. Wikipedia tells us that a drake is a male duck, so {paraphrasing wikipedia} …..

    – Drakes have many economic uses, being farmed for their [loot and salvage].
    – Drakelings are particularly vulnerable, since their inability to fly makes them easy prey ….
    – In many areas, wild drakes … are hunted for sport, by shooting, or formerly by decoys.
    – Because an idle, floating drake or a drakes squatted on [a gate] cannot react, fly or move quickly, "a sitting drake" has come to mean "an easy target".
    – Wild drakes of many [fits] … are widely [slaughtered] around the world.
    – In 2002, psychologist Richard Wiseman and colleagues at the University of Hertfordshire, UK, finished a year-long LaughLab experiment, concluding that of all animals, drakes attract the most humor and silliness; he said "If you're going to tell a joke involving an animal, make it a drake." (See CCP does have a sense of humour.)
    – The word "drake" may have become an inherently funny word in many languages possibly because drakes are seen as silly in their looks or behavior.

    Congrats on the 500 kills. How many of those where drakes? Ever hidden in a drake blind and popped one as it flew by, or came in to land?

    [sigh, it's a silly morning…]

    • hah you make me laugh and lets see I have killed 50 drakes of the 84 BC total. They represent the single biggest block of targets killed.

  6. You know, I had this massive, long post about how if you know what you're doing with a Drake, you can still do a hell of a lot of damage despite the disadvantages you listed, how Drakes are seen so often that you can sometimes build some nasty surprises into them, I've got a PvP Drake fit that tips the scales at over 80k EHP and 600 DPS… but none of that really matters. I guess the real question I keep posing to folks who hate the Drake in PvP is this:

    Would you rather have a fleet of a couple dozen gunboats to go fight someone, or those gunboats AND another half-dozen Drake pilots who have a clue?

    • Great point is it the pilot in the ship or the ship itself. It is the ship. I would want those pilots who CAN fly a drake effectively to be able to fly a gunboat

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