T1 Meta 4 vs T2

Interestingly this subject comes up from time to time and from post to post. It is a more Lesson’s Learned over time.

Rantucket has a really nice set of articles detailing the use of the Kitsune. http://rantuket.blogspot.com/2010/04/ecm-in-depth-part-4-kitsune-and.html I won’t steal his thunder except to say 1 thing.  DO not fit the T2 Jammers.  His build is very good, aside form this 1 small thing, and I applaud his instruction of jamming ships! Many have no clue how to effectively use them.

Now many people believe that in all regards T2 is superior to T1, in many cases as I detailed in my weapon analysis, MOST definitely is it worth while. The T2 Weapons article is here: http://manasi.eveplayer.net/2010/03/t2-guns-legend-or-myth-part-2/

I can think of Three  instances where the T2 variants are not only not equal, but are worse and one that is a toss up between two modules.

The T2 ECM spatial destabilizer:

Particulars:

[table id=21 /]

As you can see from the table the T2 (Caldari  in this case) jammers take more cap (19 Units PER jammer) to activate AND take more CPU  to fit.  In a fight, you want to be as cap stable as possible  & still be effective.  If you run out of Cap to activate your jammer you are worthless on the battlefield. Fitting the T2 versions is a mistake, they offer no benefit in any way.

The  1600MM Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate

[table id=22 /]

To recap, for a 0 point  increase in Armor, you get more Mass, More power-grid requirements, and More CPU requirements? No you do not want the Reinforced Rolled steel II, over the reinforced Rolled Tungsten, it makes you slower to warp, slower to move, requires more CPU and Powergrid to fit. oh, yes it also give 0 increase to Armor.

Remote Shield Repairers & Remote Armor Repairer’s

[table id=23 /]

The comparison between the armor and shield repairers is a little different.

As above the Shield Repairer II offer’s 0 benefit over the S95.  Actually when fitting them you lose 35 CPU and 32 Power grid and only gain a 1/2 a second on the repair’s cycle time.

The Armor Repairer is  a slight tossup.  The ‘Arup’ differs from the T2 Variant as there actually is a slight benefit to the T2 Armor repairer.  The ‘Arup’ use 14 less CPU than the T2version, but the it has better range ( by 350 M ) and repairs 16 more armor.  This amount and range are not all that significant, in real uses, Yet it IS better.

TL;DR

ECM modules , 1600 MM Steel plate II, and Remote Shield Repairers offer 0 benefit and actually use more resources on any given ship.  Remote armor repairers Do supply a slight bit more armor at a very slight range increase.

Ship builds are a dime a dozen, but knowing when the benefits of good T1 mods instead of the T2 Modules takes time and information.  If there is any other items I missed please let me know.

~ TC and good hunting

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~ by Manasiv5 on April 27, 2010.

20 Responses to “T1 Meta 4 vs T2”

  1. Hi, I love your blog you share great information about the game. I know I’m late on this but I wanted to share my perspective on t2 in patitcular T2 large projectiles. It’s obvious from your analysis and from all the ancillary skill benefits that having T2 projectiles is going to be better then not having them.
    But the underlining question isn’t should you have them but when. I am a 11 million sp noon I love the game and I am always trying to balance my skill queue with what I want vs what I think makes me better. And so in the last couple weeks I’ve flirted with the idea of chasing down large t2 projectiles but I ask my self am I better off put 1.5 sp in elect and nav instead ofanother 3 mil in gunnery. I have t2 med.
    I know the answer but the shiny ness of running a t2 bs is a huge draw.
    So I think the question keeps coming up because of perspective. What makes me better vs what would I like. So I think the right question for a person isn’t should I have t2 large weapons but whenshould I chase them down. I’m thinking more in the 15 to 20 million sp range is a better timefor me. But that is my perspective.

    Thanks for your great blog

    • Diziet, Train your navigation skills and electronics skills so that your CRUISER fly well. Those skills will allow your cruiser, T2 cruiser and your battle cruiser to all perform well. PLus they will help move your Battleship in an easier fashion. Once the guns, navigation and electronics are up to snuff then jump in your BS

  2. Boy, seems like most everyone has chimed in.

    As for me, especially right now, pricetag is just about EVERYTHING. Kirith’s list is most nice, and I appreciate the effort, Manasi.

    But what about when price is applied to the equation??

    I know prices fluctuate, so it wouldn’t be exact. And compiling a list for all or most items, tedious. But on POPULAR ITEMS like armor reppers, AB/MWDs, plates, is meta 4 really better??

    I realize it would be a matter of opinion more times than simple fact, but still interesting to see overall.

    I may have to do some research on this, if others haven’t already posted their own findings.

    • price is chief in your equation? I do nto know about you bro but just ratting in belts not to mention anom's gives me more than enough $ for modules. So, when push comes to shove I roll out i the best equipped ship money can but / and that I can afford. If that is interceptor…it si the best fit, if that is a BC same thing. You do not HAVE to be in a BS to be effective.

      • Ok, in the end you are correct – I just HATE spending more than I have to. The more I spend (at this point in my EVE career)the more trepidacious I am with the ship. And the margin between Meta 4 and T2 price-wise can be major.

        Though now thinking about it, I may be remembering weapon prices. It's not that big a point, especially considering how subjective the topic would be in the end.

  3. T2 can be built; meta 4 is a hopeful drop. But with the numbers running missions, it’s out there somewhere. For a small to medium fortune.

    On weapons it’s an issue of ammo.

    But I’m no pro. Thank God for anonymity, such as it is.

  4. Again, the rep/second peeps beat me to my argument XD
    In situations where cap isn't a problem, that .5 of a second is very helpful.

  5. I believe it’s also worth mentioning the 1MN MWD. Even though the cheaper named carries a larger cap penalty the lower activation cost actually makes it a net gain compared to t2 on a lot of fits.

  6. I was going to make the same point as above about the repair amount per second with the remote reps. It’s a 10% increase because of the cycle time reduction.

    And another thing to check is faction items. You can find a lot of cheap ones that have the same or greater benifit as t2 but have lower requirements.

    Also, iPhone reader checking in.

  7. Hmm, will have a look at the comment system

  8. Hey mate, thanks very much for the mention – I wish you left a post on my site so I could have added the information directly from yourself, I will put in a back link or something of the sort.

    For me the only reason I would use meta 4 is if I planned to overheat everything all the time and for the most part I overheat my modules rarely.

    Also in most cases meta 4 ECM modules are twice the price so spending the same amount on modules as the ship itself does not provide a huge benefit for anything sub Recon/Battleship – which I am yet to cover in the guide.

    I will make sure that I note the benefits of using meta more clearly throughout the guide as the activation, reduced CPU fitting cost and the reduced overheating damage taken could be worth the additional expense.

  9. with the repairers you should really be taking RPS (repaired per second) into account
    Meta 4 Armour Rep = 73.6 RPS
    T2 Armour Rep = 85.3(recurring)
    Meta 4 Shield Rep = 76.8
    T2 Shield Rep = 85.3(recurring)

    This is where the benefit of these modules lies, not in the raw attributes.

    Taking cap use/repair amount into account (cps = cap per second)
    Meta 4 Armour Rep: cps = 50.4 reps/cap = 1.46
    T2 Armour Rep: cps = 56 reps/cap = 1.52
    Meta 4 Shield Rep: cps = 56 reps/cap = 1.37
    T2 Shield Rep: cps = 62.2(recurring) reps/cap = 1.37

    There is a slight benefit seen from using the t2 armour repper over the meta 4 but the opposite is tru of the shield repper.

  10. Meta 4 webs and scramblers are also better than T2 in some regards.

    The other thing that makes high meta better than T2 is that it only takes half the heat damage and so you can overheat named modules for longer. This can be a huge advantage for tackling.

  11. T2 1600 plates take more fitting and make your ship heavier and thus slower and less agile, it's undeniable. They are also, whenever I have checked, considerably cheaper: often less than half the price of the meta 4. I've fitted them occasionally in preference to the meta 4s on ships such as neutdomis where I am not stretched for fitting or overly bothered about agility.

    "To recap, for a 0 point increase in Armor, you get more Mass, More power-grid requirements, and More CPU requirements? No you do not want the Reinforced Rolled steel II, over the reinforced Rolled Tungsten, it makes you slower to warp, slower to move, requires more CPU and Powergrid to fit. oh, yes it also give 0 increase to Armor"

    All true. But for 0 decrease in armour, you can save maybe 6-8 million per ship. Sometimes you might want something decent but relatively disposable.

  12. Thanks for the evaluation, I always use meta 4 jammers on the scorpion. Seems so odd that CCP wouldn't make T2 plates more effective than Meta 4.

  13. Don't forget to include in this list Tracking Disruptors. The meta 4 'Balmer' series tracking disruptors are also better than their Tech 2 counterparts. For example:
    Activation costs:
    Meta 4 = 12
    Tech 2 = 18
    CPU need:
    Meta 4 = 32
    Tech 2 = 48

    This means that on a tightly fit ship like a Pilgrim, you can move up to a 1600 Rolled Tungsten [over T2] because you've saved so much CPU and you save enough cap to run a neut and skip a cap injector all together.

    Target Painters mirror this with the Meta 4 PWNAGE using 16 capacitor and 16 CPU and the Tech 2 needing 24 cap/CPU.

    With SeBo's you get a CPU discount with the Meta 4, but a slight increase in cap usage which I think is well balanced. The reduced skills and fitting requirements are consistent with Meta 4 ship modules.

  14. 'Arup' < 'Solace' on the armor reps. So I think you took a look at the wrong module for that comparison.

    Mandrill also already made the point I was going to make about dps per second, but usually the only ships that can fit t2 reps are BS as Logistics ships have dumbydumb tight fittings to get anything on there.

    As for t2 scramblers/best named, the overheating difference is about one minute so it can make all the difference. Ranges are the same. Overheated a meta 4 Disruptor is 24km, and non-overheated a t2 WD is 24km, 28.8 overheated so the extra range is very worth it unless fitting is tight.

    Nice points though!

  15. http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=3_16&amp;…

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