Thoughts on the CCP/CSM

I have been thinking a great deal about CSM stuff.  Yes it is Mynxee‘s fault 🙂

Actually I have read every press release about the CSM, I read their blog s and try to understand how I would be reacting.  I try,  as without being involved there is no way in hell I could even imagine the experience.

I am trying to understand how myself as a person who voted in every CSM election can stay motivated?  I have yet to see major impact by them, after reading as much as I have about them it clearly is not the lack of ideas.  Some ideas I disagree with, others I think are great. Do CCP decision makers just not want alter their plan? Clearly many people there like and appreciate input yet very little gets done. Recently, CCP raised MY expectations that ideas brought forth by the CSM would bear some (if any ) fruit, by making them a “stakeholder” in terms of Agile development, or just having a formal place within CCP. To date, based on reports, I have read in the last 2 years there has been a lot of promises and very little delivery.

Let me know if I have fallen off the turnip truck here ok?

The Good

  • CCP actually wants to know what we think via our representatives
  • CCP hears what many on the CSM have said, lots of nodding at the right spots.
  • CCP has enacted some of the CSM ideas (the skill points thing was supposedly a joint idea)
  • The minutes/logs /information from the  CSM1-5  have gotten 100% better than when they started.  The CSM1 had to start from scratch so this is no hidden ‘dig’ at them.
  • CCP raised their status by making them stakeholders.

The Marginal

  • The good to come out of the CSM seems to take 12-36 months
  • The information they release to the CSM seems HIGHLY valuable ( Larkonis-gate {CSM3}) so it seems to be open for abuse.

The Bad

  • What large thing can the CSM point to and say ” that was us?”  None, that I know of…maybe the 100,000 skill point increase.
  • CCP has failed to actually listen ( an active listening, not just the nodding at the right spots)
  • CCP asked for input,  then seem to have either set aside things as not able to do, not important to the “vision” or  not important/ forgotten.
  • In the latest CSM summit the word has come down that there are no development cycles for the next YEAR! Even for fixing all the various lists of problems that people have. Most of the representatives were ELECTED for this very purpose!
  • Even though they (CSM5)  are stakeholders, they control nothing, they can expect nothing, they set no priorities, they have no “pull”.

I am not badmouthing CCP here, nor am I badmouthing the CSM 1-5.  CCP asked for input and clearly they have gotten an earful, but no matter who says it they seem to not alter course, nor focus on fixing things.  Frankly, we are better informed about the fact that we cannot do anything except experience this game as it comes. I can only applaud CCP and the CSM reps for working hard. Show us some of their work CCP!

I am not saying to halt the CSM nor the summit’s but compiling lists of stuff to fix is worthless if they will not actually “fix” it.

For clarity sake lets list what the CSM 4 wanted to fix:

2.1. Alliance Logos FIXED
2.3. Black Ops Improvements CSM 1 raised this  and some thing was buffed
2.4. FW complex NPCs and standings
2.5. FW Complex Spawning Issues
2.7. Docking games fix
2.9. Titan bridge range
2.10. Direct scan improvement
2.11. Logistics Ship Warp Speed
2.12. Modular Starbase
2.13. Shared Corporation Bookmarks
2.14. Watch list & broadcasts
2.15. Broadcast “In position” improvement
2.16.1. Self-destruct revokes insurance
2.16.2. Self-destruct generates killmail
2.16.4. Self-destruct timer depends on shipsize
3.1. Alliance action confirmation windows
3.3. Mining crystals change color of mining laser beam
3.4. Ingame Events Menu
3.7. Forum Censorship
3.8.1. Buffs to the EOS
3.8.2. Looking into Fleet links and possible fix
3.9. Battle Recorder
3.10. Tracking for Fighters lost in combat
3.11. Destroyer Improvements
3.14. Put More Faction Items On Market
3.15. Suicide Ganking Discussion
4.1. Overhaul of roles and grantable roles system
4.2. Kill mail Fixes
4.4. FW – CCP Inaction Towards Bugs/Exploits
4.5. FW – Lack of Development Part 2
4.6. Account Security Enhancements
4.7. Scan-able wrecks and containers for the salvager profession
5.3. T3 Refitting inside Wspace
5.4. ORE Faction Control Tower
5.5. Tradable and Subscribable BlockLists (Version 2)
5.6. Add scan probes to overview
6.1. More control over medals
6.2. Tower under Attack Mails to POS Gunners
6.3. Increase forum signature file size limit
6.4. Reconnect to lost drones
6.5. Increasing fleet size
6.6. In-Game Account Expiration Countdown
7.1. Save and Reuse Probe Bubble Patterns
7.2. Sorting Deliveries
7.3. Neuts/NOS on Overview
7.4. Ship Active Tank Bonus Buff
7.5. Allow naming any ship in your hanger
7.6. Align To Bookmarks
7.8. Localise the CSM Output
8.1. Improve POS missile batteries
8.2. AFK Button     Already raised by previous CSM
8.3. Allow reactivation of accidentally deactivated module
8.4. Distinguish between afterburners and microwarpdrives with different icons
8.5. Eve font changes – Progress requested
8.6. Sound issues
8.7. Issue when Copying and pasting links in Chat
8.8. Development Assessment List
9.1. Experimental Gallente storyline missions
9.2. End ghost (unpaid account) datacore production
9.3. Sources of Mineral Investigation
9.4. Contract Login Update Notification
9.5. View ship fittings in hanger without boarding ship
10.2. Show damaged drones in drone bay
10.4. Improvements to the F11 navigation panel

So in this huge list of things 2 things were addressed ( do not get me wrong I do not agree with all of these)  BUT 2 3 (thanks for the correction)of 65 items?  This was from CSM 4 I did not look at 1,2 or 3.

What do you all think?

~ by Manasiv5 on July 9, 2010.

11 Responses to “Thoughts on the CCP/CSM”

  1. I feel like you left a paragraph out at the end, there. You show that the record is bad (but then, by that method of measure we ought to give up on cancer or AIDS research)

    What would you suggest we do to make it better?

    Or CSM or CCP do to make it better?

    A list of things to fix is easy (ask my wife). Getting them ALL done is impossible (or so I keep telling her) The measure should not be 'what fraction of my list did you get done' but some other metric.


  2. I work for a software company that isn't in the games industry. We have product managers who talk with our customers, do market research, etc., to come up with a list of features for upcoming releases. Engineering managers come up with lists of stuff that customers don't see: things like optimizations, bug fixes, code maintenance tasks, and the like. Each release cycle, we try to grab tasks from both lists.

    CCP, like other software companies, has a limited amount of resources to assign to these tasks. They are a business, and need to weigh the costs and benefits of these tasks. Many things the CSM suggests would a) take an inordinate amount of resources or b) change the game in a way that the producers do not want it to.

    There are over 300k active customers for Eve. How many of them even voted for CSM? I believe it was around 60k: only 20% of the player-base cared enough to spend the few minutes to read up on candidates and vote. There is a very vocal minority slamming CCP for not bending to the wishes of the CSM. Even though they are stakeholders, their stake is much smaller than they (CSM) thinks it is. As long as you keep on sending in your US$15/mo, that will not change.

    As a disclosure, I'm a new player to Eve (March '10), so the stuff that the CSM wants fixed makes a very little difference in my Eve experience. I am not in one of the big alliances. I have only seen a POS once. I don't mine. I don't pirate. I have nothing against people who do any of these things.

    • using your analogy if you told your customers you now have a say ( and then change it to a formal position within the company ) to put forward the things that matter most, and THEY give you a list, and you ignore it are they really a stakeholder? No, they are an advisory board that you really do not have to listen to. This input MUST have a measurable OUTPUT ( by definition issues) that should be addressed and yet we still have issues, and a backlog, plus new "fixes" and CCP will not even now after two years dedicate time/ energy money / people to fixing these things?

      If that is the case, then the joke is on those of us that voted. I for one do not take kindly to that, ( as you can probably tell)

    • The CSM has actually tried to (and continues to try to) put into effect measures that make this a non-issue.
      Most recently, they are asking for a more direct line of contact to the devs so they can send ideas at a more regular basis for a feasability assessment – this means that the CSM won't waste months developing an idea into a point-by-point plan.
      The CSM has been happy before to be told 'No, not do-able' and has shelved those ideas – the times the get upset are when CCP says 'Yes, we will do that' and then forgets all about it.
      Or in this latest charade, start the conversation by stating that nothing asked will or can be done, because the important decisions have been made, and the CSM were not involved, or even informed.
      I think, were I a member of the CSM, I would be quite furious that CCP dragged me to Iceland, and only then told me that I had no real purpose to be there. Free trip to Iceland or not, that's contemptuous time wasting.

      • Oh, and for voter numbers – take a look at the voter turnout for some national elections and consider that this is a game, and the CSM elections aren't forced in the player's faces too much.

  3. I thought the skill queue was a result of the CSM at one point? Not CSM4 though.

  4. Is it going to take CCP a whole year to roll out Incarna and DUST? I can imagine so many problems coming out of both of those projects that it'll probably take them even longer to smooth out the inevitable bugs, then it's on to the next shiny deliverable without any concern to what really needs attention. Because we all like shiny new things to distract us from the normal, broken gameplay.

  5. 6.6. In-Game Account Expiration Countdown

    I know this one has been fixed, it's either a 15 day or 14 day warning prior to the account game time running out, it's not a major stand out but it's there, but still, 3 out of 65 items is baaaaad.

    • hmm…I have yet to see it but maybe that is if you have not setup a payment or something..Thanks! 3 it is.

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