Griefing defined

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With the recent completion of the 3rd installment of the Hulkageddon last month, @CyberinEVE, author of Hands Off, My Loots!, asks: “Griefing is a very big part of EVE. Ninja Salvaging, Suicide Ganking, Trolling, and Scamming are all a very large part of the game. What do you think about all these things? You can talk about one, or all…but just let us know your overall opinion on Griefing, and any recommendations you may have to change it if you think it’s needed.”

Griefing in EvE you say?

That is an interesting thought. Certainly there is some loss in EVE, but I am not sure loss = griefing.  The four items mentioned above were:

  • Trolling
  • Scamming
  • Suicide Ganking
  • Ninja Salvaging

All 4  to me are not griefing.  To me, griefing is using something against someone, that they have no defense for, or a different choice they can make to prevent it from happening.

Perhaps trolling is griefing to a point… but it is normally Out Of Game, as I know no way to Troll anyone in game.  Perhaps Alliance chat..maybe.. but I’ve got fairly thick Rhino Skin, so most insults mean very little.  Honestly even if you know me I generally do not GET insulted if you make me mad (which happens, albeit VERY infrequently) I tend to lose any anger very rapidly. Many in my corp are the same, we post extremely infrequently to any forums, except maybe our own.  SO getting trolled increases by the amount you might post on a forum, as we post very little we just do not see it.   Granted most who play EVE are older, maybe this is a case for those who try to wade through the forum.  I learned long ago that there is not much value in that cesspool.  The fact that it IS a cesspool should not be debatable.  Choices to avoid Trolling.  A) Do not use the forums b) do not use the forums or c) expect it to happen if using the forums.

Scamming is not only part of real life but also is part of the game.  You can avoid scams by  A) being patient and reading thoroughly(( many scams target the “I need it RIGHT NOW mentality”, B) being a bit cynical and not fully trusting many, C) applying a great deal of common sense. ( you really think someone will auction off that Cynabal for 9999999.99 or 999999999.99? Can you get scammed?  Of course you can, but never put all your resources in one spot.  When I was scammed by Dynasty Bank (more than 12-14 months ago) out of my money, I wasn’t happy…I did however learn that just because someone pays you once , twice or even three times on an investment doesn’t mean they cannot take it all at some point.  They certainly can.  SO no there is a defense against this called patience and  not putting all your assets in one spot.

Suicide Ganking has a defense as well, you see them(the gankers)  come in system, you dock up.  Simple as that, even better try coming to 0.0, where NO suicide ganking happens as we eliminate neutral pilots as we see them.  Choice A ) come to 0.0, Choice B) dock up, again there is a defense against them.  Economically speaking if your mining Ore in Hi-Sec space your not going to get “rich” that way.  For proper mining 0.0 is the place.  In an extremely limited point of view you may call this griefing as it hurts a pilot economically, but for gods sake there is more to the game than  mining in Hi-security space.

Ninja salvaging also has a defense, salvage as you go or get a less experienced pilot to salvage with you to split it.  Many seem to rail against someone coming in and salvaging on a ship.  They gnash their teeth like someone is stealing a baby child from a crib.  Remember this game is not for the the solo player…can they make it…sure, but the game dynamics increase your likelihood of survival 10 fold if you fly in a group.  Fly with a group or a buddy, someone to watch your 6.

Many of the items on this griefing list are unpleasant things that can happen to a pilot, 2 of these 4 happen in hi-security space ( which should tell you something) 1 I do not see in game ( although there is a ton of trolling on the forums), and if a deal is too good to be true reread it again and again.  Many of these are sometimes painful lessons that NEED to be learned. Do we want unpleasantness to happen?  Perhaps, as it seems to teach the best.  Honestly one of the chief things the Directors do in corp is try to prevent pilots from making a fatal mistake that one of us probably has already done.

I cannot give those 4 items the tag of griefing as people must learn the core lessons.

  1. DO not waggle thy tongue about, it will if left to it’s own devices, get you in trouble (Trolling)
  2. DO not look for the get rich quick scheme, do it the hard way and earn your money (Scamming)
  3. DO not wait for the enemy to engage you before you do anything about it, protect yourself by being vigilant (Suicide Ganking)
  4. Do find yourself a friend or a group you can fly with this game is dangerous enough/ hard enough to do with a group, why compound that by going solo? (Ninja Salvaging)

EvE is about cycles, creation, modification, destruction being the chief cycle.  Destruction is a key part…without it, the need to create is greatly diminished.  Not eliminated, but diminished.  The system is always in flux, from one side to another, but losing sight of even 1 of these is missing the forest looking for 1 tree.  Learn that destruction/loss does not = the end of the world as we know it.

I will link to others who blogged about this once I know they are active.


~ by Manasiv5 on August 23, 2010.

5 Responses to “Griefing defined”

  1. This is a good topic, but I believe it comes down to definations as well. Eve Online was my first MMO and from there I have tried Pirates of the Burning Sea and Fallen Earth. The main reason I don't stay with Pirates or Fallen Earth is age and defination. It seems the average player of either of the other two games is was younger than the Eve player so their definations are different.

    For example Griefing. Both the other two games lack something very basic, and that is the ability to attack another player anywhere at any time. Yes, in eve I can attack you if I am close enough to do so. Because of this such an attack on another player in the other games seems to constitute griefing. No, that is not the case, to me because I play eve. My defination for griefing is the application of unecessary force to kill a players ship. My example is a Hulk I lost a long time ago to a roaming gang in 0.0. The loss is not an issue, I play eve and the loss of ships is to be expected, the Griefing comes from where the gang of seven players webbed and scrambled me till they could get the rest of their 20 man in on the kill. Twenty people to kill a hulk, must have been one mean miner.

    Scamming? To be honest I don't care. I just ignore local in Jita and go on with it. Now I did get hit hard one time with a "misplaced decimal point" one time buying missiles. Well, I learned. The thing to remember about scamming is those hit by it can afford it, otherwise the transaction would not go thru.

    Trolling, I am not a forms warrior, that is for Goons.

    Ninja Salvaging? Hey, like can flipping, it is a game mechanic as is designed to be as it is. Salvage is open to the first person to salvage the wreck. If you find a ninja salvager, let them alone till they pull something from "your" wreck and then they will blink red. Once they blink red, shoot them. That simple. I have done it, others have as well.

    Take care and fly reckless, it is a lot more fun.

  2. To me, the definition if griefing is about intentions, not the actions themselves. I'd phrase the definition of in-game griefing as something like this: Taking an action with the primary purpose of causing another player emotional distress.

    Blowing up someone to loot their modules – not griefing.
    Blowing up someone because you want to hit -10 and look evil – not griefing.
    Blowing up someone because they entered "your" lowsec system – not griefing.
    Blowing up someone to "taste their sweet tears" – griefing.

    If you truly get enjoyment from making others unhappy, please consider therapy or self defenestration.

    • I think where we differ is that no matter what I do not GET emotionally distressed. TBH I know people that thrive on this and I think part of it is the fact that through enough losses, you can kind of come to terms with it and play just for the fun of it…granted very subjective I know, and maybe a tad naive in thinking that enough losses will teach anybody anything perhaps…

      P.S> edit better stated people should not GET emotionally upset at the loss of a ship.

      • If a person doesn't get upset over what happens within a game, that's great. It doesn't alter my perspective that people who TRY to upset others are griefers (and potentially have a sadism dysfunction.)

        In any event, upon re-reading my last sentence in my original reply I realized that it could be construed as me saying that Manasi is a griefer. That wasn't my intention, the "you" was aimed at "you random anonymous entity who happens to be reading this".


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