Rushing into a burning building

As DSJ was kind enough to point out in comment yesterday sometimes we are accused of forgetting what it was like to have 5 M SP. I have NOT forgotten. His comment, was in answer to my advice to stay in the ship you can fly WELL. His assertion that Alliances only want Dread pilots though is off the mark.  Alliance want EVERY type of pilot, tacklers on up through the line. All are needed and valuable.  Want to be useful?  Fly an interceptor, a huge majority of the 800 kills I have were in interceptors.

Running as fast as you can for a Drake is foolish yet you have to make cash somehow.  SO what is the solution?

A second character.

Bear with me a second.  Yes, I am saying a second character is needed.  While your first character CAN and some would say SHOULD make all the decisions haphazardly do the slow thing with your second character, train the learning skills up, make sure you can actually fit the things you NEED to fit, Engineering and Navigation skills, Mechanic skills and train up your Tanking skills. If for example you want to fly the Chimera or the Pheonix then make sure you train your Shield Skills to begin with.  While you can learn what NOT to do with your first toon your second can just churn along getting better and better.

Skills DO matter.  CEPTA does not take anyone with less than 15M SP.  Not that there is anything WRONG with having less than that, just that we field HAC/ Recons/Battleships/Interceptors/Logistics/Carriers and Dreadnoughts, that all require the ability to fit what is needed to  a fairly specific standard.  Without 15M SP or so we found pilots were unable to fit the required roles.

SO how do we answer this question? What do we advise pilots to do?

  1. Join Agony Unleashed and learn PVP at the hands of some excellent teachers
  2. Join a  Pirate corp and fly with the batshit crazy people in low sec
  3. Join Faction Warfare and get a taste of combat
  4. Run a  mission or three
  5. Explore
  6. Build stuff/Trade stuff
  7. Mine

DO whatever you can to understand the many facets of EVE.  Then using all you have learned, get out to 0.0 and experience it.

Rushing INTO a burning building is only brave when you are wearing your bunker gear, otherwise it is suicide.

TC and Good hunting all

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~ by Manasiv5 on November 3, 2010.

6 Responses to “Rushing into a burning building”

  1. Just wanted to clarify that new characters interested in learning PvP should take a class from Agony Unleashed, not join the corp. Agony does occasionally take exceptional new players but it is not like Eve University where new characters are the focus of membership. Rather we have a series of classes that new (and old) players from different corporations may take.

    The classes are considered to be pretty good and provide a lot of excellent information. They are followed by a roam that is often quite epic (50+ new players in T1 frigates laying waste to a region of EVE).

    • Perhaps slightly off the original topic … but I have to endorse the positive comments re the Agony Unleashed (AU) courses. For this low-SP largely care-bear (with some small teeth) character, flying nothing combat-oriented larger than a ‘cane, they were a fantastic education and boost for my PvP skill and, perhaps more importantly, my understanding / awareness of PvP dynamics and limitations.

      After doing the AU courses I moved myself solo into NPC null to test my survivability (and ability to make income 0.0 ratting in a low-skilled ‘cane), and was then accepted into a nullsec PvP corp (way below their SP recruiting limit*). I mostly survived in null over the next several months, and then (not enjoying big-fleet engagements or life in the drone areas) wandered off into w-space … where I reside still. Happy to report recent first attempt, successful, in tackling a drake poaching in my w-system … and acknowledge the firepower support of the remaining sleeper BS. Probably would not have been able to break his tank without that help, which is why we tackled him before he’d finished the site πŸ™‚

      * I am sure that my having gone off and worked my own way thru the AU courses, and then having dragged myself into null for my own survival training, were factors that influenced the corp to recruit me despite my SP-count at the time.

  2. I happen to agree with both of you. Personally I started flying in 0.0 with only 2m sp and except for a few rambles I'v never left it since. But the sad truth of the matter is that I'm not most people, most low sp pilots are going to get frustrated and leave. It is hard to make isk in zero when you're not able to properly fly a BC class ship. As I said in my original comment, situations do vary, and as the main recruiting officer for my Corp I try to keep the individual in mind when considering if they are right for us. It's difficult to measure the intangibles like desire and determination, those don't show up on API keys.

    Sorry, I feel like I'm taking over someone else's post here. πŸ™‚ RJ slinks back to his own blog now.

  3. Thanks for responding to the comment. Just to give a little back and forth I certainly understand where you are coming from. And as someone that is responsible for providing the logistics to all the new corp players we recruit and moving them to 0.0 I agree that the skills matter tremendously with respect to how they grow into helping an alliance with its goals.

    I don't have 2 characters, I have (4) accounts with 5 characters not counting cyno alts. But I believe it is entirely unhelpful to tell a new player that the only way to achieve in the game is to buy a second account. Let's be honest here, as someone with a good job and lots of disposable income I can afford to throw money into a game but that's a choice. How many new players would even sign up if you told them — hey this is a good game at $15/mo but to really have fun you have to spend $30?

    I firmly believe as you do that training the support skills for ships is vital. I believe you can't put people into fleets flying ships that they really can't fly. Everyone gets a thrill out of getting to fly a new shiny and with new players not yet firmly connected into the community/gameplay that thrill is necessary to motivate them to stay around and develop further.

    The real key to developing a low sp player into a good pilot is not a well thought out training queue. My experience would suggest that a pilot with a bad distribution of skills but a solid ability to learn teamwork and grow into a corp/ally culture is a far better pilot than one that has a perfect skill set but can't actually integrate into your organization. This comes down to something that I'm sure CEPTA finds as difficult as everyone else — how do you measure a players true ability/potential other than the facts you can pull out of a api key?

    I say just the opposite to your last few sentences…. I think the best place we could start a new right out of the box character would be 0.0 … The best way to learn is to go out and die in a fire! And the best way to make sure new players succeed is to recruit for attitude and aptitude rather than resume and give them a good home with skilled players for advice. These players aren't going to be right for a corp like CEPTA which is playing the game at a different/higher level and your recruitment fits your corp well, but these players do have a place in 0.0 and telling them to wait for the skills in empire and low security won't improve the higher end game as much as getting them involved in 0.0 early. We need more newbs rushing into the burning building … it's only suicide if you are alone. That sense of excitement a new player feels is vital to the game. Us veteran pilots should remember it's why we stayed with it in the first place. I certainly didn't stay in eve for the missions or mining. Get those guys out of high security! Get them into the real fun! Get them a chance at real isk!

    I really hope that everytime CEPTA gets an app that doesn't meet your standards for resume you send them to a corp in your alliance that they might be right for. I have had to tell people that they weren't right for my corp too (we have a limit on sp too, lol) but I hate telling someone that they don't have a place in a part of the game I feel is the most fun there is in EVE.

    • Excellent and well thought out points, all around. Perhaps we are shutting the door on some good pilots. I think putting the new players into a more controlled fire ( faction warfare) is probably a step in the right direction.

      I guess maybe I did not do an excellent job of saying out loud how we separate the wheat from the chaff. 15M is the first step…the second is a voice interview where we determine attitude and bearing, the third step is a trial period that can last a short term ( min 30 days) or longer.

  4. Good advice. Our standards are pretty much the same, although individual situations can vary. I also remember how frustrating 5m sp are and how desperately I wanted to contribute. Funny how things change, back then my Drake was almost useless in fleets, now that's the flavor of the month.

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